Forum Thermomix
Thermomix Recipes for TM5 and TM31 => Bread => Topic started by: meganjane on October 10, 2009, 07:50:55 am
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I'm not happy with the bread that I've made in the TMix so far, so I'm experimenting.
I believe bread needs a long, slow process for it to be at its best in texture and lightness.
This is my recipe number 1 that I normally use for my breadmaker:
355g water
600g bread mix (I use Lauke and blend 400g white with 200g multi-grain)
1 1/4 tsp yeast
Add to TMix and blend for 5 minutes on :: setting
Rest for 10 minutes
Blend 5 minutes and rest for 10, then blend for 5 minutes more. :: The rest in between is important. If allowed to mix for a full 10 minutes, the TMix heats the dough up.
Allow to rise in machine for at least 30 minutes.
Turn out and place into bread tin. Cover and allow to rise for another 30 minutes. Bake at 220 degrees for 45 minutes.
Mine is baking now, so I'm only guessing at the time. This is the baking time used for the breadmaker.
Will post an update in 40 minutes or so!
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Meganjane don't give up on Thermomix bread just yet. I make a lot of bread and have never had a failure. Try the 5 seed and the buttermilk. I tossed my breadmaker away a long time ago and before TMX I made it by hand. Bread takes only 20 minutes in my fan forced oven at 200c no matter what sort I make and no matter if I have let it rise twice. Last week I made 8 sorts of bread with minimum effort and each one a winner using just the recipes I found here or in the TMX cookbooks.
Gretchen
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Hi Gert!
I'm certainly not giving up - far from it! I'm going to keep experimenting with my bread mix and the TMX until I get the bread that I want.
The 5 Seed Bread sounds great! I buy Bread mix, though, as it's more convenient. I may just try this recipe with my regular Lauke Bread Mix and see how it goes. It has a lot of water to flour, so that my be the difference.
Here's the result of experiment 1:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/Bread1.jpg) (http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/CutBread1.jpg)
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Meganjane, my first few loaves of 5 seed bread were actually done with bread mix. I had bought 20kg to take away and there was some left. I just pretended that it was flour and did the recipe accordingly.
The mix is very soft compared to a traditional loaf. I now knead it for 3 minutes and let it rise a little longer. Like Gretchen I'm finding the TMX brilliant for bread. My bread usually cooks for about 25-35 minutes.
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Nothing wrong with that loaf Meganjane. Looks great. I buy bakers flour in 5 kilo packs. Not always convenient up here as I have to keep it in the fridge. I would be nice if it came in 3 kilo packs. Like cookie I usually knead it a little longer in the TMX too. It is all about trial and error. I think the climate makes a difference to bread rising too. I put one lot outside and I had a Mt Vesuvius which took me ages to to scrape from the table. After that I bought the Thermomix silicone mat. Worth every penny.
Gretchen
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The loaf sure looks great.
I have had success with shorter kneading times, but leave longer to prove and tend to do it slowly.
15 yrs ago I did about a year of No-knead classes and know that I can make excellent bread with very little kneading.
Do you use the 37o to warm it while kneading ?
Don't give up on it - you'll get there.
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Do you use the 37o to warm it while kneading ?
I didn't know about that one Thermomixer!!! Nice tip ;D :-* :-*
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Thanks for the tip TMixer!
I'd still only give this bread a 3.5 out of 5. Not quite right yet. I'll definitely try the Five Seed Bread today, I'm sure it's having more liquid that does it.
I haven't had to use heat on the TMX as it creates it's own heat from working the dough... Yesterday, I left it for 11 minutes and it was showing 37 degrees on the temperature buttons.
Gert, I haven't seen the silicone mat. What's it used for?
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I was sure there was a chat about the bread mat. http://www.forumthermomix.com/index.php?topic=1536.0
See if this works meganjane.
Gert
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Thanks from me too for that tip TMXer. Meganjane keep at it. You'll find the perfect loaf for you sooner or later. I loved your photos too.
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Beautiful loaves, Meganjane! :)
You are right with the slower proving, though. It results in a much more satisfying flavour.
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Thanks Gert!
I have a silicone mat, but didn't ever think to use it for kneading dough or pastry making!
As I type, the Five Seed Bread is proving on the stove, while a roast lamb is cooking in the oven. YUM!
I didn't have all the seeds, so used almond meal as a replacement. I'm out of pumpkin seeds and don't like sesame seeds in my bread, only on top.
Boy, that dough is sloppy! More like a cake batter.
Will let you all know how it goes.
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Well, I'd say probably 4/5 for taste, but only 2/5 for texture and lightness.
Not sure if I cooked it long enough because it's quite doughy and heavy.
I cooked it at 220 for about 20 minutes until I realised that it should have been only 200, so turned it down for the final 20 minutes. It didn't have that hollow sound when I tapped it, but was getting quite dark, so I took it out.
Tastes superb, but still not what I'm after. I'm going to try it again with less water.
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/Bread2FiveSeed.jpg)
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/CutBread2.jpg)
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Looks good. Maybe the almond meal made it a bit heavier. Probably a bit too hot for it but a good effort anyway. So long as it tastes good eh? It is a very sticky mixture which is neat I say as you don't have to mess with it much just mix and pour.
I made butter yesterday and did not realise I had the reverse on all the time. Worked anyway. The machine obviously knew what I was trying to do. Spooky.
Cheers,
Gretchen
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Once more great photos. You and Julie are very clever. Your bread looks lovely, but obviously not what you want. My 5 seed loaf is fairly light and suits us, but possibly not right for your tastes. Lucky we're all different.
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How long do you bake yours cookie? Mine was in for 40 minutes, but maybe it did need longer....
I haven't had a chance to try again today, but will have a go after work tomorrow if I get some time to myself.
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I bake mine for about 30 minutes. Very often things cook quickly in my oven though. I let it rise for anything up to an hour too, and knead for 3-3 1/2 minutes.
I suppose we all fiddle with something we like the taste of until we get it suited to exactly what we want.
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I've made another 5 seed loaf with only 450g water this time. Still too heavy for my liking. Will reduce to 400g next time.
It toasts really well and tastes delicious, but isn't a light bread the same as the breakmaker does.
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Looking better in the pics - keep going and when you have it just right they'll change the flour !!! ;) :-))
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LOL! That's probably right!
I made another one with a recipe my TMX agent gave me and changed it a little by 'sponging' the yeast - really nice light white bread!!
Elsie's TMX White Bread
300 mls warm water
520 gms bread making flour or bread mix
>1 tablespoon yeast
20 mls oil
1/4 tsp Vitamin C powder (I used bread improver + 1/4 tsp tartaric acid)
1 tsp sugar
1tsp salt
Mix yeast and a little water with the sugar. Leave until fluffy - about half an hour.
Add with the rest of the ingredients and follow normal breadmaking instructions. I rose it once in a greased bowl, then again in the bread tin until it reached the top of the tin. Baked for 30 minutes at FF 190 degrees.
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/th_P1000272.jpg)
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Looks great MJ maybe you could post the recipe in the bread section :)
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I sure will - as soon as I've perfected it!
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It looks pretty perfect to me just as it is MJ ??? ???
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It really looks lovely.
I've just done another lot of 5 seed bread and decided after letting it rise I would simply put the oven on and cook it that way, instead of taking it out, letting the oven rise to temperature, and then putting it back in. I'm quite disappointed with the result. It seems the yeast was killed off early and it didn't rise that little bit it usually does when baking. :'(
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Lovely looking loaf MJ
Gretchen
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I thought I had posted this but it isn't there so I couldn't have clicked hard enough ???
I have mine doing its second rising at the moment (in the widow ledge of the main bedroom which gets the full afternoon sun) and if it turns out half as good as your picture MJ I will be extremely pleased. Takes quite a while to get this one in the oven with the hour for the frothy of the yeast, an hour for the first rising and however long it takes for the dough to rise to the top of the bread tin - maybe another hour? That's the only thing I don't like about breadmaking - the time it takes to produce a loaf. If this one works out, I'll definitely be making 2 next time.
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I have mine doing its second rising at the moment (in the widow ledge of the main bedroom which gets the full afternoon sun) and if it turns out half as good as your picture MJ I will be extremely pleased. Takes quite a while to get this one in the oven with the hour for the frothy of the yeast, an hour for the first rising and however long it takes for the dough to rise to the top of the bread tin - maybe another hour? That's the only thing I don't like about breadmaking - the time it takes to produce a loaf. If this one works out, I'll definitely be making 2 next time.
Maybe it is the climate up here it seem my first rising is about 1/2 hour and maybe 20 minute for the second if I don't put it into a cold oven. The only bread that takes longer is a Ciabatta because I make the "sponge" the night before. The Buttermilk loaf I made here took only an hour from go to whoa. http://www.forumthermomix.com/index.php?topic=486.30
I have been lucky I guess that it is always hot here.
Gretchen
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Summer will certainly be easier down here too Gretchen. Might have to cook the bread outside in the gas weber then though as I hate heating my kitchen up by using the oven when it is stinking hot. Second rise only took 1/2 hour so I got caught out and didn't have the oven ready to go, did I :P :P
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I have made focaccia and pizza in my gas Weber. Might try bread just for fun. Good idea Judy.
Gretchen
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My loaf wasn't as light as yours MJ, certainly didn't look as high either. I think it could have had another 5 minutes or so in the oven as it was a little bit doughy but it is very nice, just not like a loaf of shop-bought bread. What size tin did you use? Mine is 10cm wide at the base, 7cm deep and 24cm long and the cooked loaf was only 8cm high. Am I ever going to get this bread-making right :'( :'( :'(
Just checked out your recipe again and realised I didn't add the bread improver and tartaric acid (didn't have any) so do you think this made any difference?
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FYI....I cook EVERYTHING in my hooded gas BBQ in the summer. My oven NEVER goes on ;D if you haven't used it for baking before....It is exactly the same as using a new oven ....once you get to know it you will never look back :)
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[Just checked out your recipe again and realised I didn't add the bread improver and tartaric acid (didn't have any) so do you think this made any difference?
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Nah, Judy I never use that stuff. Sometimes take the bread out offf the tin and give it 5 minutes more in the oven.
SFYI....I cook EVERYTHING in my hooded gas BBQ in the summer. My oven NEVER goes on ;D if you haven't used it for baking before....It is exactly the same as using a new oven ....once you get to know it you will never look back :)
[/quote
How many burners do you use faffa?
Gretchen
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Gretchen, mine has a thermometer in the hood, so I guess that helps :-)) :-)) lol. I generally put all 5 of mine on to quickly heat it then reduce it to the two outside ones on moderate and then monitor it from there. It does take a little more watching than in the oven as the temp can fluctuate a little, especially if it is windy but so worth it compared to heating up the whole house with a hot oven ;)
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Ok fire it up then down to maybe 200 c?
I'll give it a try.
Thanks for that.
Gretchen
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Thanks MJ - funny, I had forgotten about the Vit C until looking for the Danish Recipe last week. Used to always add it.
The latest loaf looks pretty bloody good - but before you send me aloaf I would really appreciate if you could perfect it ;) ;) ;) :-*
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:D
Gretchen, I added tartaric acid as it's similar to ascorbic acid (vitamin C). I think it makes a difference as a preservative for the bread. Mine is lasting waaaay longer than usual.
I've purchased some Vit C powder now and made another loaf recently, but didn't have time to photograph it as I had to dash off as soon as it was out of the oven. This particular one had a mix of white and wholegrain bread mix plus some seeds. It was really lovely. I'll make another and make sure it wasn't a fluke and will post my recipe.
I'm with you on the time it takes to make bread! I'm planning to buy another tin and make two loaves at a time and freeze one.
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Made it again last night, but forgot to put in the oil and lecithin. Also, it rose beautifully in the pan, but when I took the plastic wrap off, it dropped!
Tastes good, but not as soft as the first:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/P1000338.jpg)
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Looks pretty good again - keep at it. What temp are you proving the bread at now?
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Proving at room temps, which is probably around 20 - 22 degrees.
I'm just munching on a slice (the crust) of the best bread I've ever made!!!
I'll call this bread Forget-Me-Bread. The reason being, I forgot that it was proving in the bowl, and it proved for an hour and a half. I put it in the pan to prove once more and promptly forgot about it again. I left it for nearly three hours. It was extremely puffy looking! I didn't put plastic wrap on this time, so it didn't drop at all before it went in the oven.
Once more, I forgot that it was in the oven and it cooked for at least 20 minutes longer than it should have.
The result is a slightly burnt looking crust, but the loaf is as light as a feather and just divine!! I'll post photos tomorrow, it's late and I have to get to bed.
Edited to add photo:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/P1000340.jpg)
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Nice to know it will rise, even at those low room temperatures MJ. Might just try the slower method myself and see if I can get a lighter, fluffier loaf. Mine have been just OK but I want them better than that. I slice and freeze my loaves for toasting so up until now it hasn't mattered.
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Love the Forget me bread. I often think we are in too much of a hurry when we're making bread, slow and steady (and forgetful) often produces lovely bread.
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LOL! I do have an excuse. I was making my Face Lotion in the workshop at the time and needed to go and pour it before it got too thick. As I was coming back from my workshop, I smelt....almost burning bread! :o
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Looks like long slow proving might be your answer - but not over cooking :-*
PS - forgot to say - I think the 20-22 deg proving temp is better than the higher temps (30-35 deg) - for my taste ;)
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Bwwwwwaaaaaa! I would have to put mine in the fridge to get it that low.
Gretchen
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Don't know how you cope with the heat - yuk - I'd melt. Some people do prove it in the fridge overnight ;) Good thinking.
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Looks like you're stuck geographically with fast rising Gretchen.
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Try the bathroom Gretchen - preferably as close to the floor that you are prepared to put it ;)
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That is where I find the dog on hot days ;D ;D ;D
Gretchen
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Speaks volumes then Gretchen lol ;D ;D ;D
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Gretchen, try the fridge overnight. Once it gets too hot here, I'll probably have to do that too. I'm making it again without too much forgetting this time! I did leave it to rise in a bowl for a few hours and again to rise in the tin for about two hours. It's baking now, so will let you all know and will post photo.
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looking forward to your next review MJ, following this thread with interest ;)
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This is it! My bestest effort ever! The bread is soft and fluffy and the crust is crunchy. It's a high rise loaf.
But, be warned, it takes about 6 hours.
Blitz a mixture of seeds for a second or two - poppy, sesame, pepita, whatever you have.
Mix 1 Tblsp dried yeast with two Tblsp water and 1 tsp sugar. Leave until frothy (about 5 minutes)
520g bread flour
210g warm water
2 Tblsp mixed crushed seeds
1 Tblsp honey
1 Tblsp whole pumpkin seeds
1 Tblsp lecithin (avail from health food stores)
1/4 tsp vitamin C powder
Place all in *: and use :: setting for 4 minutes.
Place in a greased bowl, cover with plastic wrap and leave for at least 2 hours.
Punch down and knead a little if you want, but I don't bother.
Place in tin and spray with oil. Leave for at least 3 hours, or until mushrooming above the tin. I start it in a warm place like the car, then move to the house after an hour or so (so I don't forget it!).
Bake at 200 for 40 minutes.
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/P1000344.jpg)
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So that's the secret to fluffier bread, the rising time! 5hrs :o It looks fab!
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This is a wonderful looking bread. Well done.This is my latest buttermilk loaf made in my new tin with lid so a great sandwich loaf and practically a fast food compared to to yours meganjane. 40 minutes rising in thermomat, then 20 minutes in the tin. 20 minutes in the oven on 200 so less than 2 hous go to whoa! If I put the loaf to rise in the car who knows where it would end up as I would be sure to forget it. Be funny if it rised right out the windows. ;D ;D ;D
Gretchen
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Is this just the basic bread dough recipe Gertbysea?? I think my kids wouldn't be so embarrassed about their mum's home made bread when they take it to school if it looked like this - better invest in this tin! :)
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Clever girls, they both look lovely.
Gretchen your rising in the car reminded me of a friend (truly, it's not me) who thought her bread had failed so she buried it up the back yard. Later her DH came in and asked her if she knew what the 'thing' coming up in the yard was? Her bread was fine, it had risen up through the loose sand she had covered it with.
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Nay-Nay the Cape Seed loaf fits nicely into the lidded tins.
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Just the normal buttermilk loaf from the EDC. You can click on pic to make it bigger. I bought this lid from the bakers supply but I think you could improvise sol ong as it was heavy enough. Thinking something that covers with brick on top.
Gretchen
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That looks excellent Gretchen. My bread is just used for toast as the men in my house prefer bought bread for sandwiches, no matter what the homemade bread looks like!. :-[
I'm prepared to do the long slow thing as I just love soft bread with a hard crust!
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MEN :-)) :-)) :-)) mine are all the same in this house too but I refuse to buy it lol :D :D DS1 buys his own on occasion on his way home from work and then has to fight everyone else off it :o
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Great work indeed - I made some bread at the weekend and it was amongst the best I've made for a while - started the proving in the fridge for 24 hours because I had some sour dough starter that I wanted to use and refresh and didn't expect to be out of action. But the result was great - will take a pic of what is left.
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OK - picture for what it's worth - the final proving was over an hour - lost track (maybe that is the way to make good bread ;) ) of the time - but it worked well (I think)
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/thermomixer/Bread.jpg)
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Looks scrummy thermomixer ;D
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Oh my theromixer you are such a show off. ;D ;D ;D Yours is bigger I assure you. :-)) :-)) :-))
Gretchen
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lol is that a baby gate I see in the background Thermomixer?? You looking to keep the
little buggers darling little treasures out of the kitchen already ;D ;D
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I noticed the baby gate too faffa
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Oh my theromixer you are such a show off. ;D ;D ;D Yours is bigger I assure you. :-)) :-)) :-))
May be an optical illusion ;) - but it did rise nicely -think this is because it went into a hot oven (if anybody has made choux pastry that is the same idea - so ban putting bread into cold ovens - my new campaign!)
lol is that a baby gate I see in the background Thermomixer?? You looking to keep the little buggers darling little treasures out of the kitchen already ;D ;D
Fortunately he can't even crawl yet!!! The gates are for the four-legged ferals that cohabit ;) ;D Worse than the kids when left at home alone.
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I concur thermomixer. I just don't get the cold oven thing. But... having said that my consultant does it and her bread rolls are teriffic. I just would not do it myself. Now show us your ciabatta.
Gretchen
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I've tried bread in cold ovens a couple of times and I don't like the results. Hot ovens for me too. I did a bread course at TAFE in the days of the dinosaurs and it was always hot ovens.
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Just to let you know a couple of tweaks I've made. I'm trying to include different grains into my diet, so not so reliant on wheat. I subbed out 50g of the grain bread mix for 50g spelt bread mix and reduced the yeast to 2 1/2 tsps. I didn't need to prove quite as long and had my loaf made in a morning. Yummy, light and fluffy! ;D
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I start it in a warm place like the car, then move to the house after an hour or so (so I don't forget it!).
I put a loaf on the dashboard in the car out in the sun once, kept checking it every 10 minutes or so and one time as I approached the car I couldn't see it where I had left it. The car was locked so I couldn't work out how anyone could had removed it but when I opened the door, there it was sitting upside down on the passenger seat. Obviously it had risen so much it had overbalanced. Sure had me puzzled though.
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Just to let you know a couple of tweaks I've made. I'm trying to include different grains into my diet, so not so reliant on wheat. I subbed out 50g of the grain bread mix for 50g spelt bread mix and reduced the yeast to 2 1/2 tsps. I didn't need to prove quite as long and had my loaf made in a morning. Yummy, light and fluffy! ;D
Good to hear it's improving.
JD - glad to hear it wasn't stolen.
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Judydawn has asked for my modified recipe for the EDC recipe for basic bread. I will keep it simple and it is basically for those who have not made bread before or who have not any success.
Ingredients.good as stated except - use 2 full teasp. of yeast.
-no salt if using a bread premix (like Laucke) which is a good idea if starting.
-can replace wheat grain with wholemeal bread flour or premix.
Process in EDC is good for mixing and kneading, then-
- roughly form the dough into a ball , place in a lightly oiled bowl. spray with water,,
- cover with plastic,( I use a shower cap !)you could place it in a plastic shopping bag that you can see through.
- place bowl in a warm place, this will depend on your climate, the best temp is between 20 and25 degrees. A friend puts her basin in her bed with the electric blanket on ! We are in a cold climate.
- It needs to DOUBLE, the time will depend on the temperature. At the above temp. it will take 30 to 40 mins.
-when double tip out on to the lightly floured bench or ( better still the T.M.mat.) decide what you are going to cook your loaf in. you can use what ever you like - bread tin, Pyrex loaf pan , cast iron cass. dish.,french bread stick pan.
-oil the dish well , and generously sprinkle baking dish with seeds or oat flour or rolled oats.
- flatten out bread, fold sides into center, and tuck ends under. form into the shape that will suit the baking dish. Place into dish.
- spray with water, sprinkle again with seeds etc., Make 3 or 4 slashes across top about 1 cm. deep and cover with showercap or plastic bag. ( tie the bag so that the moisture is kept in)
- place in the same warm spot that you used before. Let it again DOUBLE. This will take slightly less time than the 1st. rise. I have found you can cook the loaf in a cold start or hot oven with very little difference.
COLD - place loaf in oven , spray with water and set temp. to 200 degrees. Set timer for 30 mins, After 30 mins take bread from oven and turn bread upside down into tin. Put back into oven. Set timer for 20 mins. Cook for 20 mins. If base of bread does not appear to be nice and brown, turn oven up 10 degrees and cook for another 10 mins.
HOT - warm oven to 400 degrees. and cook as above , except the loaf should not need the extra 10 mins. at the end.
Try to resist cutting loaf for 1 hour, or you will rip the dough and not be able to assess the quality of the loaf. If there is a doughy layer at the bottom, you have not let it rise enough . If there are big holes then it has risen too much .
Reading through the posts made me realize just how our likes differ in what we expect from a loaf. You can add a tablespoon of any grain or seeds without making a great deal of difference to the texture. Judydawn likes a soft loaf so could add a tablespoon of leftover mashed potato.
Many of you are already making very good bread, keep at until you get it exactly as you would like it.
For members who live in warm climates I suggest you might like to read 'Wild Sourdough" by Yoke Mardewi. Although she deals with sour dough she does live in W.A. You might like to experiment with doing the 1st rise in the fridg over night.
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Thanks chookie - the thing with cold start oven baking is that the consultnats (and maybe the EDC) says to put it in BEFORE it doubles again - that doesn't work for me.
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Thanks Chookie, now it is there for all to see and for me to print out so that I don't lose it again ;) ;)
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Thanks Chookie.
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I now explain at demo's that I let the dough rise for longer at home, just we are time restricted at a demo. I also now put it into a hot oven at a demo.
I make the dough, put it into the bread mat to rise, make the dip and salad, TURN ON THE HOST'S OVEN, check the dough, shape it, make the main course and before starting back on the flip chart I put the bread in the oven. By the time you finish the flip chart, serve the main etc the bread rolls are cooked with perfect timing ;) ;)
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At the demo that the beautiful Anita did at my house I talked to her about the timing of both the bread and the general program. She said that the idea was to show how quick and easy it was to make bread. I said what was the point when it didn't produce a good loaf. faffa 70 you have it right - both hot oven and rolls. With the hot oven you get a quick "bounce" , and the rolls dont take as long to cook.
After re reading my post of last night I think it might put cooks off, - too long. When my son comes up on Xmas day I will make a vidio and put it on a post. It really is not much trouble at all. With the cold start, my oven takes 20 mins to heat to 200 ( not 400 as stated in recipe) I dont like wasting the power, and with a little fiddle at the end can get a good loaf.
Thermomixer, your sour dough loaf looks excellent. I have found that I can keep the starter in the fridg for up to a month without feeding it.
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I find rolls easier at a demo too as a hot loaf is impossible to cut and show how good it is as you just make a mess of it!
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At the demo that the beautiful Anita did at my house I talked to her about the timing of both the bread and the general program. She said that the idea was to show how quick and easy it was to make bread. I said what was the point when it didn't produce a good loaf. faffa 70 you have it right - both hot oven and rolls. With the hot oven you get a quick "bounce" , and the rolls dont take as long to cook.
After re reading my post of last night I think it might put cooks off, - too long. When my son comes up on Xmas day I will make a vidio and put it on a post. It really is not much trouble at all. With the cold start, my oven takes 20 mins to heat to 200 ( not 400 as stated in recipe) I dont like wasting the power, and with a little fiddle at the end can get a good loaf.
Thermomixer, your sour dough loaf looks excellent. I have found that I can keep the starter in the fridg for up to a month without feeding it.
Your post was really informative, not too long at all. Thank you. A video would be excellent!!
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............ A video would be excellent!!
NOW the pressure is on Chookie !!! - get one of the grandchildren on the job !! ;) ;) ;) :-*
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When I want to speed up the rising process I stick it in the oven on 50º for 20 mins, take it out and then heat oven fully before baking it. The 50º trick is great when I am in a hurry, made bread this morning doing this, perfect! Has anyone else tried this?
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Certainly have. Think I've tried just about all the tips - in the bed with an electric blanket, in the car in the sun, ....
It makes sense to have it in the oven as you are going to have to turn it on to cook - thanks bron :-* :-*
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Yes that's my standard method of rising now - in the oven. My toddler finds it if I try anywhere else! ;)
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Just want to add to this post with my tweaks for my recipe since reading "Ratio", and also since making bread last night for this morning's breakfast.
New and Improved Bread
This recipe is designed only for bread flour. Any bread flour can be used, as long as it's not gluten free, though a mix of gluten free and regular works well. I've made it with Kamut, Spelt and regular wheat flour. I use Lauke's Wallaby Bread Flour and All About Bread's Kamut and Spelt.
500g bread flour (a blend is wonderful)
300g tepid water
1 Tbsp lecithin (optional)
1 Tbsp honey
1 Tbsp oil
3 Tbsp seeds (I use pepitas, sunflower and flax)
1 Tbsp salt or, to taste
1.5 tsp Wonderfresh (avail from All About Bread)
1 tsp Natural Bread Improver ( '' )
2 tsp dried yeast
Mix on :: for 5 minutes. Leave to rise in *: until peeking out of the top. (thanks isi!) Poke down and mix on :: for another 2 minutes. Roll out to a rectangle shape and roll up like a sausage, place in large tin. Leave to rise in fridge overnight, if desired, or as normal. Bake for 25 minutes on 200. Remove from tin and place back in oven for 5 minutes. (optional for really crusty bread)
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/th_OvernightBread.jpg) (http://s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/meganskinflint/Food/?action=view¤t=OvernightBread.jpg)
Click picture for full sized view)
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Looks like you are winning - but now we need lecithin, wonderfresh and bread improver - what has this Ruhlman character been saying about bread ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The bread in the picture looks good.
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Yum MJ. Well done.
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MJ, do you let the dough from overnighting in fridg. come to room temp. before cooking? Looks fab., good mix also.
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MJ, do you let the dough from overnighting in fridg. come to room temp. before cooking? Looks fab., good mix also.
I take my bread out of the fridge and place it on the hob while the oven is heating to bring it back to room temps.Looks like you are winning - but now we need lecithin, wonderfresh and bread improver - what has this Ruhlman character been saying about bread ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The bread in the picture looks good.
;D You don't need all those extra things, they're just what I use. A 1/4 tsp Vit C powder will suffice.
Ruhlman hasn't said much about bread, other than the ratios, he waxes lyrical about stock though, especially veal stock! :-))
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MJ what is wonderfresh? what are the ingredients?
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Check this out
Wonderfresh is not a preservative but an emulsifier. It assists in retaining the moisture in bread thus providing a noticeably softer crumb and extending the freshness of the loaf for a further 4 days.
Wonderfresh is added to the bread mix or flour at the rate of 1½ teaspoon per loaf thus it is extremely economical. The substitution of 20 ml of oil for 20ml of the water enables the Wonderfresh to combine with the oil thus producing the softness and longer life.
from here http://www.allaboutbread.com.au/knowledge_kbf.php (http://www.allaboutbread.com.au/knowledge_kbf.php)
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Thermomixer thanks for this link. Can we but Wonderfresh here?
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ok but what exactly is in it if you know what I mean 8)
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Sorry, have to get MJ to look on the pack - but possibly lecithin and Vit C like No-Knead
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Sorry, haven't been visiting lately as I've been busy!
Wonderfresh ingredients:
Soy Flour, Mineral Calcium, Emulsifier (471 which is simply Mono- and Di-glycerides of fatty acids, so made from oils), Flour Treatment Agent (510 - Ammonium Chloride - my book says it's easily digested and helps reduce acid in the body), Cereal Enzyme (Amylase)
It certainly keeps bread fresh.
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Thanks MJ.
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Wondered what difference does it make if I prove the loaf for the second time overnight on kitchen bench before baking it in oven the first thing in the morning (a good way to make kids hop out of beds in time for school, eh?).
Am going to try yours next week - too busy this week. Have to host a demo at my place this weekend - should be fun to watch my sister demonstrate TMX magic! :D
Cheers!
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darls, unless it is cool in the kitchen over night it will rise too much. You could try the Fridge and sit it on the bench while you wait for the oven to warm up.
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Yes, proving overnight in the fridge is done by some restaurants. Andie would be able to give us some more ideas - I think she has commented before.
But as Chookie says - overnight in fridge and then out to warm a bit before into the oven and the crumb should be fairly even. Less likelihood of big and little holes.
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I've proved my loaf in the fridge overnight. It works perfectly well. Just allow to come to room temps while oven is heating up.
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Meganjane, would like to know how you go.
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I was just thinking about this today as I was waiting for my bread to bake and running very late. Hope it works MJ! :)
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Not sure you understood my post. I meant that, yes, it does work, I've done it before! Just pop your bread into the bread tin and put the tin in the fridge. I don't cover with plastic wrap as it tends to stick, even when I grease it. Loosely cover with a cloth if you want, but I don't bother.
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Must be losing the plot. I can't even use the sleep deprivation excuse anymore!!! :)
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:D
I still make pretty much the same recipe, I just change the flours. Sometimes I use All About Bread's Soft White Mix half and half with Spelt flour, sometimes I use Wallaby flour with spelt and add a bit of salt and some milk powder. I like seeds in my bread, but DH doesn't. :-))
This morning, he had the audacity to ask if we had any 'real' bread! I couldn't believe my ears, real bread, what, that cardboard that's in a plastic packet? You call that real?!
Hhhmph >:(
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Meganjane don't get too cross with DH. Although I make all kinds of bread I sometimes fell like a toasted cheese sandwich made with "real" bread.
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I think allmost all men are the same ..... and love white bread :-)) Let's blame their mother :D
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I know how you feel MJ - I get that ALL the time!! Sunday DH treats himself to white loaf of rubbish bread and a hot chook. Oh well - at least there is no Maccas or anything like that out here!
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Meganjane don't get too cross with DH. Although I make all kinds of bread I sometimes fell like a toasted cheese sandwich made with "real" bread.
Do you use plastic cheese Chookie? I am a bit partial to plastic cheese in a toastie with white bread. Shocking I know!!! :)
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Yes to both, Chelsea. ;D ;D ;D
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Haha! I'm partial to a HJ's whopper every now and then...shhh!!
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Back to the original topic.
I've been reading Richard Bertinet's "Dough", and he bakes bread at 250C for 20 minutes. So, I figured I'd try it! I had a Lauke German Rye mix and it worked brilliantly. I thought the top would burn, but it was deliciously brown and the bread is as light as a feather.
Our German back packer workman loves it!
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Does he apply that time and temp to most loaves MJ? Sounds very interesting.
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Chelsea, sorry I didn't get back to this thread. Yes, he does apply it to all his loaves.
I've been baking my bread at 250C for the past month and it makes a deliciously light loaf. I take it out of the tin at 20 minutes and turn the oven off, but let it bake for a further 5 minutes. I have an electric oven and it holds its heat for a long time.
I'm experimenting with Artisan No-Knead Bread today. I have the mixture made and waiting for it to rise so I can chill it and make a loaf.
I used 1kg of flour all up - 4 cups Wallaby White and 2 1/2 cups Rye Flour; 830g of water, which was 3 3/4 cups; 1 1/2 Tbsp salt and the same of dried yeast.
Because I'm using bread flour, I upped the water. I read that high protein flour needs 83% water, so that's what I'm going with.
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Hi... I'm new to all these cooking and thermomix. When you are talking about 250 deg in the oven- is it using fan force or not? Thanks...
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Don't forget, you can use a probe thermometer to check the interior of any type bread loaf to make sure it is fully done.
The center of a loaf should reach a minimum of 95° C.
If less that this, the center can be underdone and doughy - and actually will not keep as well because of retained moisture.
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Thanks for the tip andie.
Yes, my oven is fan forced, Andriani.
More recently, I've been baking my bread at around 220C when I do bake. It's too hot here, so I've been buying my bread.... :-\
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Yoke, the sourdough lady bakes all her bread at very high temperatures and on a pre heated granite piece too. It seems to make it very crusty. Does yours come out crusty MJ?
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Yes, the bread is lovely and crusty when cooked as such a high heat.
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Thanks.
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Thanks for the tip andie.
Yes, my oven is fan forced, Andriani.
More recently, I've been baking my bread at around 220C when I do bake. It's too hot here, so I've been buying my bread.... :-\
Just catching up on all my unread threads here :-)) :-))
When it has been hot here I make my dough, do the first rise, shape the loaf and do the second rise in the fridge over night, Then cook the loaf when we get up at 5am before it gets too hot - was the only way that I could do it - even with air conditioning!
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:o You get up at 5 am to bake bread?? Good grief, there's no way I would do that! Your family are very, very lucky. :-*
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Trying bread in tmx again after seeing this thread. Was very :( with out results of the quick EDC versions.
Now to find the perfect Italian crusty loaf....
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Hope it works for you!
I'm baking a crusty Italian Loaf right now, so I'm also crossing my fingers! I'll let you know if it works out.
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Hi rather than start a new thread I am posting here but it is a very general question and also quite a dumb one!!!
so here goes...
I want to cook a large loaf in my cast iron pot, do I cook with lid on the pot or off?? 😄
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Chookie advises to cook with lid on for first 30 mins then lid off for last 10 mins. adjust the times to suit size of loaf. I tried this on weekend and it worked for me.
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bonsai is right GHM.
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Halloween Fun :)
I am making a spider dip bowl & 3 cauldrons for dip.
I was thinking of adding black food colouring to the water when I make the dough in the hope to get black cauldrons & spider.
Has anyone added food colouring to dough before & if so how did it turn out?
H :)
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H, I have add color to egg wash to brush over bread. Not all that successful.
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H i've added colour before many years ago and from memory it worked quite well. I'm not sure how you will go with black because you would have to use quite a lot to get the dark colour. I also used to use saffrom threads which gave a fantastic yellow colour to the bread.
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Ok, thanks, will need to use a lot. Might trial the cauldrons today as I can freeze them if they work well.
Ds & dh had great delight in eating the legs last night :)
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Hally, scroll down and check out farfallina's coloured bread here (http://thermomixtarifdefterim.blogspot.com.au/search?q=bread). She uses squid ink for the black section - guess you wouldn't be keen on using that though with your seafish allergy?
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A lot of black color is actually very very dark blue.
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Even when you get true black food colouring (usually only available from specialist cake decorating supplier) the result is often grey as the white colour of the dough or icing dilutes the black.
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H the tip is when you want black cake or bread whatever that you use mainly cocoa then just a bit of black food coloyring and u get black without the bitter..
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I successfully did it with fondant icing.. It goes quite black but I use either the powder or pastes .. The liquid is not that effective..