Author Topic: Types of flours for bread?  (Read 34608 times)

Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2010, 08:35:50 am »
Thank Chelsea.  that is really helpful.

Offline Chelsea (Thermie Groupie)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
    • View Profile
    • My Blog - Full Little Tummies
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2010, 10:54:24 am »
No worries.  ;D

Now I need your help Chookie  ;).  I am trying to convert a soaked bread recipe (from Passionate Homemaking blog) that has had great reviews.  I am going to reduce the ingredient amounts to 1/4 (enough for 1 loaf of bread), increase the amount of unbleached white flour to make it lighter and will try vitamin C or orange juice instead of the dough enhancer (as I'm not keen on the ingredients in the enhancer).  I'm not sure what would be the best method to try though to convert it to TMX (how many rises, how long to knead etc).

Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Here is the recipe:

Homemade Whole Grain Soaked Bread
11 cups of ground whole wheat flour (you can replace 1 or 2 cups with unbleached white flour for a lighter end result)
1 cup acid medium (kefir, cultured buttermilk, or whey; for dairy intolerant you can substitute with 1/4 cup apple cider vinegar or lemon juice and 3/4 cup water)
3 cups of warm filtered water
2 cups oats
1 cup honey
3/4 cup coconut oil, or butter melted
1/4 cup raw millet, optional
1/4 cup flax seed, optional
1/2 cup water
1 tsp honey
2 1/2 Tbsp active dry yeast
1 1/2 Tbsp sea salt
2-4 Tbsp dough enhancer (I highly recommend this dough enhancer, as it works very well, but you can also replace with any combination of the following: 3 table spoons vital wheat gluten, 1/2 tea spoon soy lecithin, a pinch of citric acid (use sparingly!), and a sprinkling of ginger)
1 cup unbleached white flour or sprouted flour, if necessary
Sunflower seeds, if desired

Directions:
1. Combine the flour, acid medium, oats, honey, melted oil, millet and flax seeds. Cover and soak at room temperature for 12-24 hours.
2. After soaking, in a separate small bowl, combine yeast, 1 tsp of honey, and 1/2 cup warm filtered water. Let sit for 5 minutes or so, until fully proofed.
3. Combine the yeast mixture, soaked flour mixture, and all the rest of the ingredients in your mixer. You may need to add an additional 1-2 cups of flour. Dough should clean the sides of the mixer.
4. Knead the dough for 10 minutes until the gluten is fully developed.
5.Remove to a greased bowl and cover with a towel. Let sit until doubled, about 1 1/2 hours.
6.Punch down, turn dough over, and allow to rise until doubled again, about 45 minutes. (OPTIONAL, but preferred for best results)
7. Punch down dough and divide into 4 loaves. Roll out with a rolling pin into a rectangle and roll up into a loaf (this makes the perfectly shaped loaves).
8. Place in greased bread bans and rise again until doubled, about 30-45 minutes minutes (the best place is the oven! Just turn it on low 150-170 degrees till heated and then turn it off, prior to putting the loaves in).
9. Turn the oven on to 350 degrees and bake for 30-45 minutes. Bread is done when it is fully browned on all sides! Remove from oven, rest in pans for 10 minutes before removing from pans.

Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2010, 11:39:06 am »
Chelsea, what a 'challenging '' recipe.   and what great fun to get it right.  Think I will have to have a go ;D ;D ;D ;D.                       

I would knead for 5 mins. the TMX is very efficient so I would think this would be enough.   However I would remove the lid after 5 mins.  and feel the dough.  If it feels under developed I would it another 3 mins.   When you feel the dough you will have to decide if what you have got just needs more flour and is developed but wet.                                                                                             

If you leave the soaking flour/ grains for 24 hours,  and use the cultured buttermilk,  you will create a similar effect to sour dough,  as it will start to ferment.  This,  plus the yeast should give a good rise.                                                                                         

I think 2 rises should be enough.   you will know by how much it responds with the 1st rise.  If it is energetic,  then 2 will be enough,  if it is sluggish then it will probably need 3.   You will need to be very patient.                                                                             

This recipe is very similar to one that I make with sour dough and it develops for 18 hours (overnight).  It has no added yeast and produces a very good loaf.  I dont soak the flour ,  but sometimes add precooked grain.                                                               

Hope this is of some help,  but in the end you are going to have to use your own judgment,


Offline Chelsea (Thermie Groupie)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
    • View Profile
    • My Blog - Full Little Tummies
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2010, 11:41:34 am »
Thanks Chookie.  I don't know if I'm quite up to this bread-making challenge just yet but will give it a go all the same.  Thanks for the advice.  :)

Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2010, 11:47:12 am »
Chelsea,  I will have a go early next week.   Will let you know how it goes.   I will write down what I do.

Offline Chelsea (Thermie Groupie)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
    • View Profile
    • My Blog - Full Little Tummies
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2010, 12:15:03 pm »
That will be wonderful - thanks Chookie.  It may be the answer to a lot of our soaked bread questions.  :)

Offline quirkycooking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
    • Quirky Cooking
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2010, 04:04:04 am »
Can't wait to see how it goes!  Sounds great.
Quirky Cooking: http://quirkycooking.blogspot.com/
Thermomix Consultant, Atherton Tablelands, FNQ, Australia.

Offline Thermomixer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8369
    • View Profile
    • Thermomixer
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2010, 11:23:05 pm »
Hi CHelsea - doesn't sound too hard.  Just mix the grains etc and leave overnight then next day put yeast honey and water into TM bowl and heat at 37 for 5 minutes on speed 1 or soft and add the grain mix and knead for probably 3 - 4 mins - add extra flour if it is too sticky.

I would even put it back after doubling to knead for another minute.

Good luck
Thermomixer in Australia

http://thermomix-er.blogspot.com/ - my blog

http://thermomixmagic.blogspot.com/ - our joint blog in Oz - please feel free to join us.

Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2010, 12:45:24 am »
Chelsea,  started the soaking yesterday so as to give it 24 hours.   I did this as I didn't think that the amount of yeast in the recipe was going to be enough to lift the bread,  and the extra time would allow it to ferment and therefore add extra bounce.  Also it was more convenient to the activities I had on Sunday.  I don't know if you have made this bread before,  but the amount of liquid, when converted to a quarter,  didn't seem enough .   It may have been the grain I used,  or it might have been that I didn't grind it enough.
However, the TMX kneading was very successful,  with minor changes,  which I will post later.  At thw moment it is doing the first rise,  after 5 mins. kneading.    Will report tonight,  after it is baked and sampled ;D ;D ;D

Offline Chelsea (Thermie Groupie)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
    • View Profile
    • My Blog - Full Little Tummies
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2010, 03:32:19 am »
Great work Chookie.  Will be very interested in your final review!  :)

Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2010, 05:42:48 am »
Chelsea,  the end result is not as good as I hoped.    It didn't rise very much in the tin,(the 3rd. rise),  although the first 2 rises were good.  I would suggest 1 rise in the bowl,  and one in the tin.  It might even be worth considering just 1 rise.   Because the flavor and the crust are so good it is worth persevering.
I would soak 2 cups of flour and seeds over night,  and do as Thermomixer suggests,  and do the yeast bit in the TMX,  and add the soaked mix,   plus 1 cup of white flour and 1/3 cup of water to compensate for this flour .
Also think about the enhancer.  I used orange juice ( 2 dessertspoons ),  and could taste the orange.   Maybe I used too much.
The white flour I used was a pre mix (Laucke), so didn't add it to the soak.
You could use the TMX in the 1st step to mix the soaking mix.(probably  ::10 sec.)   There didn't seem to be enough liquid to mix the grain,  but I suppose this is how it should be. :-\
Final point is that the dough was quite difficult to handle,   this could be because I messed around with the recipe,,  or more likely the wheat that I ground up in the TMX was not fine enough.
I will have another go,  but need more whole grain flour,  so will have to wait until Thursday.
Conclusion....5 mins in TMX,  good.   1 or 2 rises to be determined.

Offline Thermomixer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8369
    • View Profile
    • Thermomixer
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2010, 09:17:31 am »
Thx Chookie - looking forward to updates  :-* :-*
Thermomixer in Australia

http://thermomix-er.blogspot.com/ - my blog

http://thermomixmagic.blogspot.com/ - our joint blog in Oz - please feel free to join us.

Offline Chelsea (Thermie Groupie)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
    • View Profile
    • My Blog - Full Little Tummies
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2010, 11:04:46 am »
Thanks so much Chookie.  Some very good feedback there.

There is often only a small amount of liquid in soaking recipes which is a bit surprising.  It can be difficult to mix and is often like a very thick paste. My organic order is coming tomorrow with some grains so I will be able to give it a go soon with your suggestions.  :)


Offline achookwoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
    • View Profile
    • Chook woman
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2010, 01:50:48 am »
This bread is too good to give to the chooks,  so I am going to slice it thin and toast it in the oven,  and use in place of crackers or dry biscuits.  We had something similar when we were out for dinner.   

Offline Thermomixer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8369
    • View Profile
    • Thermomixer
Re: Types of flours for bread?
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2010, 08:29:56 am »
Good idea - there is always something you can do.
Thermomixer in Australia

http://thermomix-er.blogspot.com/ - my blog

http://thermomixmagic.blogspot.com/ - our joint blog in Oz - please feel free to join us.