Have you looked at www.recipecommunity.com.au ?

[judydawn]

Must be something we ate MJ, I also complained yesterday when they didn't fill my wine up to the mark on the glass.  I noticed it when they gave the guy ahead of me his so when I got mine, all of a sudden my mouth opened and out came this request to please fill it to the line    I think you get to a certain age and don't put up with you know what. 

[Shiraz49]

Well done MJ.
SPC used to be owned by the growers.  Now it is owned by Coca Cola - enough said.
I can still remember the "SPC baked beans and spaghetti for hungry little human beans" ad from many years ago. A lot of people attribute that ad to Heinz but it was the most successful advertising campaign that SPC ever ran.

[LeeJ]

Cookie, I would write to them and claim your recipe, if I were you.

I'm in that sort of mood today. I've emailed three different companies! SPC to tell them their tinned spaghetti and baked beans are too full of liquidy sauce and not enough beans or pasta, another to Bulla to tell them I hate their new Ice Cream containers and another to Ethical.org to tell them that Gaia Baby Products no longer use pure essential oil, but components of it to fragrance their products.

I've been on my soapbox all day!

I could hand deliver your Bulla complaint I live 2 minutes away, and know almost every staff member there 

[I Love Bimby!]

This has been an interesting thread to read and I totally agree with you all.  And I'm really disappointed that HO choose to use our recipes without giving us the due credit. That's all we ask for, not royalties but just credit where credit is due.

I just received my offical "resignation" letter from HO. No Christmas card but they were pretty quick to send off this letter    And I was suprised that they're demanding all the contact information back ASAP as it's 'their' intellectual property... I'd better step off my soap box now before I say too much 

[faffa_70]

is that contact information as in customer contact information that they are asking for ILB?

[thermoheaven]

Anyone on ANY forum with admin (or on some forums even moderator) rights can access your ISP address and joint he dots so to speak.

I also think its unethical and was glad someone PM'd me to let me know about this forum.

I know, but I think an independant site (such as this) would have less reason to check up on us. I'm sure RC is more likely to check up our details and perhaps even use them for their stats, IYKWIM, in fact I'm sure they will. I'm also sure they have spent a lot of time studying this site before starting theirs. The fact that recipes have been lifted from here is proof of that. The fact that they have not acknowledged sources is terribly impolite, especially considering everyone else is carefully to state sources of information. What they have done essentially constitutes plagiarism and theft of interlectual property, nevermind impolite.

I know I'd never be able to speak my mind on RC because TM owns it and are quite within their rights to censor what I write. A bit of a police state in cyberspace.

ILB, I'd tell them your records were all destroyed or lost when you moved.

[meganjane]

Well done MJ.
SPC used to be owned by the growers.  Now it is owned by Coca Cola - enough said.

I didn't realise that. I've checked on ethical.org.au and yes, but at least it's Coco Cola Amatil, an Australian company.

ILB, I wouldn't cooperate one bit.

[faffa_70]

This has been an interesting thread to read and I totally agree with you all.  And I'm really disappointed that HO choose to use our recipes without giving us the due credit. That's all we ask for, not royalties but just credit where credit is due.

I just received my offical "resignation" letter from HO. No Christmas card but they were pretty quick to send off this letter    And I was suprised that they're demanding all the contact information back ASAP as it's 'their' intellectual property... I'd better step off my soap box now before I say too much 

I never got a Christmas card either - wonder if any consultants did this year?

They ask for the contact forms but they are never reissued to consultants as a rule, otherwise why is there so many customers out there without consultants??!!

[Meagan]

I have had customer info and demo summary forms passed on to me from retiring consultants in a 'hand over'.

I got a Christmas card 

[ThermomixBlogger]

Well my goodness! I checked in on this thread a couple of days ago when it was only three pages long and I have to say the general tone was somewhat more forgiving. Thought I'd watch to see what happened next and here we are now. Three pages later, and a less forgiving tone. We are in interesting times, for sure.

I hear people raising doubts about the ethics of TMX HO practices and about the rights of internet users regarding original content and boy oh boy, don't get me started.  Oh, wait, it's too late, I'm typing already!

To clear up one fact: it is not just the owners and admins of 'forums' who can check up on IP addresses. It's basically any site owner or blog owner with any amount of web savvyness. Once you jump online and poke around with a mouse, you lose your privacy. That's a simple fact that most people don't think about but it's just the nature of the internet. It's how business is done and it is what drives the ad deliveries to all blogs and sites, even this forum. Not a big deal, and NOT worth losing sleep over.

Intellectual property rights are a BIG bugaboo for people like me who have been creating content for print and web. RESPONSIBLE publishers (be they book publishers, newspapers, magazines, webiste owners, bloggers etc.) will always get you to 'sign off' if they plan to avail themselves of the rights to your content. There is always fine print, so look for it. If there is no fine print, head in the other direction. This is one reason I declined a while back when someone on this forum asked to use my Chocolate Salami recipe for a cookbook or something. Yes he did ask, but the recipe was not completely mine and I did not want to get into a potentially complicated situation with anyone over a recipe that I have already credited to someone else on my blog. (see how quickly things can get complicated?)

This forum is a blessing and what is a forum but the sum of the integrity of its members? In this case, also a MM who moderates at arms length, for the sake of a robust community. Witness this thread. Bravo. The support around the questions raised in this thread is wonderful to see.

Someone asked if these HO practices are TMX-wide, or just relating to Oz. I have seen and heard A LOT from customers, consultants and distributors around the world. In fact, I have heard too much. No need to wonder why I do not sell the machine. But the stories I've experienced and heard will never be made public on my blog or any other site because my primary allegiance is to the machine. In fact, I love this machine so much, that I work 12 hours each day on developing and marketing a blog with no revenue stream. I have sent a staggering number  of referrals to Vorwerk and if I had $1 for each machine they sold from a SuperKitchenMachine referral, I'd have enough to fly to Australia and kiss each of your Bimbys.

I think the questions being asked in this thread are wonderful and healthy. The internet is changing the face of 'direct marketing' far beyond what anyone could have expected. The people who make the marketing rules for TMX are scrambling to catch up because the internet is not their game. Remember, they are a family-owned company with a sales model that goes back several generations...

I think the best thing to do is:
1) Keep asking questions.
2) Value yourself and what you do, ESPECIALLY if you are a consultant. (I bow down to you all.)
3) Stay true to the machine.
4) Get up from your chair, walk into the kitchen and cook something in your Bimby. This is the best way to get back in touch with why we are all here. Thermomix has enlarged our world, enriched our lives and allowed us to have so much fun with each other, with our food, and with our families.

Right now, some of you may feel you're being handed the proverbial lemon, but if there is one thing that's for sure, it's that we Thermomix owners sure do know how to make lemonade -- don't we?!? 

 

[achookwoman]

Thermoblogger,   Thanks.  You have hit the nail on the head,  and from outside Australia.  It is important that we all protect our own integrity.  Where ever there is money involved there are going to be problems.  I have always been grateful toMM for the manner in which he and his team have managed this Forum.

[judydawn]

Exactly.  Bravo Helene, well said.

[quirkycooking]

Thank you Helene - we love you!!!!! 
You're such a help to us all, especially those of us not as internet savvy as we think we are!! (me for one!)  I think Helene's right that all this internet stuff has happened very quickly, and they're scrambling to keep up because it's not their 'thing'.

Re HO asking for forms from ex-consultants - that's actually so they can keep contact with customers, sending them newsletters relating to cooking classes, etc, and I don't think it's something to get upset about.  They're not invading anyone's privacy or anything - just keeping in contact with people who want to be kept in the loop.  I've actually had customers from consultants I know (who are no longer consultants) contact me through my blog VERY upset that nobody is looking after them, no one is telling them when cooking classes are, no one is letting them know what host incentives are on offer for the month, etc, because their ex-consultant hasn't passed on the forms yet, and they feel like they've been forgotton!!!  So I think it's important for ex-consultants to make sure their ex-customers are going to be well looked after by someone by passing on their customers contact details, and not just leave them to flounder without any support.    

I know I was upset when I bought my first machine, and my consultant quit not long after, and I never heard another peep from anyone for 5 years!!!  I had no help - once I'd bought my Thermomix, I was on my own.  (And no forum back then!!! )  It was only by chance that I saw a Thermomix stall at the local show and got back in contact with Thermomix people (and ended up becoming a consultant - yay!!)...  Mostly I've had lots of help from HO and I love being a consultant.  I am disappointed about the recipe community claiming ownership of recipes, but I'll just not put any more recipes on there - other than that I've had good experiences with Thermomix   And we have some lovely consultants up here in FNQ, and lots of support. 

[thermoheaven]

Well said, TB.

I think we all agree that we are happy with our tms, but are dissatisfied with the way management fumbles around and tries to make people (customers and consultants, alike) jump through so many hoops. So much work the consultants do is unpaid, and to top it off, they don't even get reimbursed for ingredients used in classes and promotional activity. Now they want to rip off recipes off the customers as well by claiming ownership of recipes they don't even develop. That's the impression of the company that I am getting.

Quirky, the same happened to me - my consultant disappeared after selling me (and my friend) our tms, and my friend didn't get a demo at all, or a thermoserver for that matter. I don't know what HO do with the forms because they certainly didn't do any follow up.

[meganjane]

Jo, it's only recipes entered in the competition that become Vorwerk's property. Much like cookie's WW recipe competiton. I bet it said in the rules that the recipes become their property.

If the reason HO want customer info is to keep them informed, then yes, that's perfectly acceptable.

And, well said Helene! Hear, hear.

And, thanks MM for allowing us all to express our views freely.